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John you are most welcome. I promised to end my part in this discussion. Your summary of the points I also disagree with speaks for itself...Congratulations on a great post.
PS: Check your PM in a couple mins. John.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>
I think John's evaluation is great and covers most points adressed in this thread, One of the best posts i've seen on here and it's been a great discussion too...i've learnt a lot
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 10:05 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rafael, see what you started! You came to this forum looking for answers and you start a war. Anyway, after reading all of the posts, I suspect that the only ones who have significant experience playing big band music are Peter Erskine (of course) Dazzler, and myself. My advice is that you read those posts and ignore the others.Quote:
Originally posted by Rafael Dolinski:
Hi, I am new to the forum.
I would like to hear some tips on playing with a Big Band. I've joined one and we will start rehearsing next monday but I have no experience at all playing with a big band.
The songs are mostly jazz and some are latin-jazz.
Thanks for your help!
Good luck, and have fun. (Runs for cover).
First of all, it seems like when people in here know they're wrong and have their backs up against the wall, they start cutting the posters ability to play.
I can read flyshit. That's how I can say that. I studied with Sam Ulano for 3 years. And I also studied with Marvin Smitty Smith and quite a few others. Doesn't mean I can play, but I can sure as hell read. But honestly, I'm not the issue.
The issue is can drummers play any style music whether it be big band, rock, latin and not read a note. Yes. Is reading a necesary tool? No. Is it a useful tool? Of course. Should a great drummer be able to read? Yes, every great musician should. Does everyone? NO.
Now if this is hard to dig for some of you, I suggest going back to first grade. PHEW......
So, I'm saying when students come to me and say "I wanna learn big band" and they're holding a chart, I tell them to put it away. Same as the Hass' teacher, in his response to SDK.
I really think when a student thinks big band=chart reading, long and short notes, ensemble figures and set ups, they're going to sound nonswingin, and mechanical. That's the wrong way in my book. The greats don't think like that, they play the tune and if they do read, it's for form, and shout chorus'.
And that's my opinion. Stop misinterpeting what I'm saying. I didn't knock reading. Not once. That would be a ridiculous statement.
Are you serious Rob?
Sam Ulano? He's arguably the best reading teacher out there.
Good for you!
Yes I re read as well, and although Dazzler knows his stuff, his last post came from outer space..like...what??????
Matchgrip, Dazz, Flarob, and Para, all seem very knowledgable on the topic. Matchgrips description of reading is the best post I've ever read in here. Made sense. You're all saying the same thing.
It's just Dazz doesn't want to admit that some players are so damn talented, that yes, they can hear something once and know it.
It's a skill you CAN develop if you don't rely on your reading all the time. It's like what Hass was talking about in his reply to me on his board. It's a great skill and you need it for some things. but if you sit there and read things you played 3 or 4 times already, your not really helping your memorization skills.
Great topic!
You can't compare us to Buddy or Dennis, they are what they are for a reason and just because they can get by without reading it doesn't mean that the rest of us can. Everyone has their own needs and individual abilities. Plus im sure if dennis is playing difficult music without reading, hes going to have to rehearse at least a bit, where as someone who could read could play the tune 3 or 4 times with a chart and then basically memorise.
Also, i don't understand why you guys are always looking to Hass to justify your points and whatever he says is the ultimate. He's human too and what he describes what works for him or his OPINION what he has gathered from his experience which as vast as it may be, is not the same as other peoples experiences.
You can't just say reading is not essential because you can't generalise that statement to every playing situation.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 12:28 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>
This has tunred into muddslinging.
The fact is SP that drummers are learning about BB drumming from the wrong angle. I think Para Rob ;-) are saying, big band does not equal reading, and they are right.
As far as Hass, I only use him because he's the only KILLER pro that has amazing gigs that I can go to and ask online. Keith Carlock has a forum, but I don't think this was a question for him as he doesn't professionally play big band music like Hass does.
On that note, who else has an open forum?
i know but you don't take what Hass said to be the ultimatum and the only right alternative to playing big band. Again playing BB might require reading or might not require reading it depends on the situation! We are all trying to argue points that can't be generalised, they are too specific to a certain situation, and of course reading is a great way to help you learn the music.
anyways, i don't know any other drummer's sites with an open forum, actually i know thomas lang replies privately by e-mail, hes done so to me twice.
I know frank gambale has an open forum, but hes a guitarist [img]tongue.gif[/img] an awesome oned at that, super nice guy
It doesn't depend on the situation my friend. Reading is not mandatory to play any style of music.
Sorry SP, you're not understanding the discussion.
It's ok. Have a great day.
;-)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 12:49 AM: Message edited by: SDK ]</font>